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Subject: Red-throated Flycatcher? [Print This Page]
Author: mguy    Time: 5/12/2010 18:14     Subject: Red-throated Flycatcher?

Hi is a Red-throated Flycatcher coming into breeding plumage?

Today - Lamma Island 0  North facing hillside near water
D3 w/Nikkor 500mm F/4D

[ Last edited by mguy at 6/12/2010 06:40 ]
Author: wleepoin    Time: 5/12/2010 21:40

Lovely! Congratulations!!

Cheers
PWMK
Author: ajohn    Time: 5/12/2010 22:17

Given the extent of red/orange on the throat and breast, this seems to be a Red-breasted Flycatcher, rather than Red-throated.
It seems your garden is the place to be for this species at the moment!
Author: lpaul    Time: 6/12/2010 12:01

Wow!  The first adult male Red-breasted Flycatcher in HK.  The bill looks all dark here, but I suspect that there is some pale at the base.
Author: brendank    Time: 6/12/2010 12:23

Given that this bird has a rather dark bill and gray plumage (uppertail coverts aren't clearly visible), I suspect it would be almost impossible to separate from Red-throated without hearing calls had it not retained the nice red breast.  I have read that the timing and retention of red is different during post-breeding moult between Red-throated and Red-breasted. Are we simply overlooking many male Red-breasted Flycatchers that haven't retained red or would we expect most to retain those feathers?
Author: lpaul    Time: 6/12/2010 12:46

Quote:
Original posted by brendank at 6/12/2010 12:23
Given that this bird has a rather dark bill and gray plumage (uppertail coverts aren't clearly visible), I suspect it would be almost impossible to separate from Red-throated without hearing calls had ...
I'm a bit confused by your comments.  Adult male RBF have extensive grey on the head.  I also think you can see the uppertail coverts and these are clearly not blackish.
Author: brendank    Time: 6/12/2010 13:11

My point was minus the extensive red throat and breast, I would say this bird would not really stand out as Red-breasted.  The bill does not really appear pale and the plumage overall doesn't appear to me to be particularly warm. There must be some adult birds that would be impossible to identify unless they were heard.
Author: mguy    Time: 6/12/2010 14:55

Hi I have some more photos of a bird I took this morning which looks completely different colourwise, but light was completely different alsoo, from the posting yesterday... will take a while though.
But definitely at least 2 in the garden as I saw & heard the 2 calling 2 each other.... the sound is as described in my 1985 version of Viney.... the rotating of a wooden rattle
Author: wgeoff    Time: 6/12/2010 15:16

Hi Guy

Although both Red-breasted and Red-throated sound like a rattle, there is a distinct difference between them in the speed of the rattle. Listen to the following sound, the first two calls are Red-breasted and the second two are Red-throated.

http://www.geoffwelch46.com/RBRTFLYSOUND00.mp3

Red-throated is much faster, as can be seen by the spacing of the sound lines on this sonogram (just a visual picture of the sound)




You should be able to tell the difference in the field
Author: mguy    Time: 6/12/2010 17:51

Hi Geoff..... will listen to them a few more times (at this time think I have heard both, but the sound from this evening is from the first/second)..... however the good news, hopefully, is that Neil videoed this evening with audio & should be able to post a link within a couple of hours.
In the meantime I have some more photos from this evening & will post in a while together with photos (some novelty)from this morning... is interesting to see the difference the light makes

All the best, Guy

[ Last edited by mguy at 7/12/2010 05:14 ]
Author: mguy    Time: 6/12/2010 18:28

These 2 photos were taken at 07:13 with "clean" light behind the bird so there is no light affected plumage on the front of the bird...

Author: mguy    Time: 6/12/2010 18:38

These 5 photos were taken at 07:47 today & whilst the images are in the shade there was "golden" light around which might affect the plumage colour., although there are light areas that should be affected, but seemingly aren't.....






[ Last edited by mguy at 6/12/2010 18:48 ]
Author: mguy    Time: 6/12/2010 19:10

These 3 photos were taken at 08:19 in the shade except where shafts of light are shown....


Author: mguy    Time: 6/12/2010 20:10

& a rather large set of images from this evening from 17:12 - 17:16. together with some fun ones...













[ Last edited by mguy at 6/12/2010 20:14 ]
Author: mguy    Time: 6/12/2010 20:25

And another image at 17:35...
Author: fneil    Time: 6/12/2010 21:09

Guy,
     I've put a video with the call up here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7892550@N03/5237402905/

Neil
Author: EricB    Time: 7/12/2010 06:26

Great images and sound recording. Full house of id features for Red breasted Fly.
Eric
Author: wgeoff    Time: 7/12/2010 06:26

The call on Neil's video is quite clearly Red-breasted. Compare it with the two calls on my sound file above.

If I had a separate sound file taken from the video, I could analyse it and send you the details.

As Paul says above, this is the first adult male Red-breasted (i.e. with a full red breast) seen in Hong Kong. I had a partially red breasted second year bird last year but this is much better. You can just see the pale base to the lower bill on some of your photos but it's not as obvious as on some birds and it appears to be mostly hidden by small feathers under the base of the bill. Perhaps it's more a feature of younger birds.

Another excellent garden bird Guy

[ Last edited by wgeoff at 7/12/2010 06:47 ]
Author: lpaul    Time: 7/12/2010 08:14

A wonderful series of photos of a very handsome bird.  It is interesting to see how much darker the bill is than on the other HK records.  I am not sure it is age related, as an adult male I trapped in Armenia a few years ago had a very obvious pale lower mandible, and more so than this bird.

The call really is strikingly different, all three Red-breasted I have identified in HK were initially located on call.
Author: wgeoff    Time: 7/12/2010 08:54

I have made the following sonogram of your bird by sound recording off Neil's video



You can see how well this corresponds with the Red-breasted sonogram above (first half of the above image).

Of course, it also sounds alike.

When I get back from Po Toi, I'll analyse the sound pattern and compare it with previous Red-breasted in Hong Kong.
Author: mguy    Time: 7/12/2010 12:47

Thanks Geoff et al....... your input is greatly appreciated.... also thanks to Neil who was along side me, for the defining video w/audio.

All the best, Guy
Author: mguy    Time: 10/12/2010 18:27

Deleted.. I posted in wrong place... sorry, Guy

[ Last edited by mguy at 10/12/2010 18:38 ]



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