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        Discussion Area 討論區 >> Photo Gallery 相片分享 I >>  Swinhoe's Snipe (修正) 
        
(Message started by: Marcus on Oct 23^rd, 2002, 1:56pm)

Title: Swinhoe's Snipe (修正)
Post by Marcus on Oct 23^rd, 2002, 1:56pm

The photos were taking on 19-10-2002, Long Valley.

http://davidyoung.dreamstudio9.com/photo_on_net/images/members/mmpho/4113.jpg

Title: ::)Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Grace_Chan on Oct 23^rd, 2002, 4:51pm

Hay! Marcus, pls re-post again, tks!

::) Grace

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by ychan on Oct 24^th, 2002, 9:44am

:o哈哈 ! :o 好靚靚 !用甚麽機影的?

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Marcus on Oct 24^th, 2002, 6:50pm

I use DSLR + 500mm +2X with tripod. Thank you! ;D

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by 648 on Oct 24^th, 2002, 8:35pm

很清晰啊！用2X也有這麼好的成像,真的很好！
可以請教鏡頭、腳架及雲台的資料嗎？

648

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by 高佬 on Oct 25^th, 2002, 12:03am

648

可否也介紹一下你的器材嗎？
以及和大家分享你的攝影經驗和心得！

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by koelko on Oct 25^th, 2002, 10:01am

The photos are really spectacular!
But I am rather curious...are the two birds the same one? The first one looks more like a Pintail to me.

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Marcus on Oct 25^th, 2002, 1:05pm

Sorry everyone, when I double-check the information of the photo, the config should be -> DSLR + 500mm +1.4X with tripod + ball head + ~40% cropping of the original photo.

648, you are right, if it was taking 2x, it should not be so sharp.

高佬, I think that reading the nature photography book is a good way to take a better picture. Moreover, watching more beautiful pictures from other people and learn from them such as 648 and kk Hui's pictures as in this web site. In the above photos, cropping picture for presentation is an important stage I think. Furthermore, to the above SNIPE, I've to thank Willian that point it to me.

koelko, they are taking from same bird. I may post another photo of that SNIPE later.

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by kkhui on Oct 25^th, 2002, 4:21pm

on 10/25/02 at 13:05:57, Marcus wrote:

... 648, you are right, if it was taking 2x, it should not be so sharp ...

Just let me say this, with good long lens technique one should be able to obtain good sharp (of course, sharpness is relative!!!) images with brand name 2x TC eg Canon EF, Nikkor etc.

And with practice, very acceptable 'sharp' shots with stacked TC's viz 2x + 1.4x are within reach too.

Note that I'm assumming the use of SLR or DSLR here with super telephotos such as 600/4, 500/4, 400/2.8 and 300/2.8

Good shooting!

Best
kk
---------------
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Marcus on Oct 25^th, 2002, 5:54pm

Thanks a lot for your experience sharing, kk hui.

I would try to get use on "2X+1.4" if I've a chance. Thanks again!! ;)

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Bob on Oct 25^th, 2002, 6:52pm

Cropping of a picture is a very debatable subject, many photographers say that a picture should not be cropped and that the subject should be framed within the whole negative.

I believe that K.K.Hui shots are never cropped.

Bob

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by kkhui on Oct 25^th, 2002, 7:49pm

Bob,

I'm with you on the issue of cropping. I'm a firm believer of 'NO CROP' approach as you already know. A good photographer shall always aim for getting the composition right at shoot time. The film area will be better utilized, subject filling the frame, resulting a sharper and smoother grain image. This applies to both traditional film or digital base.

Almost all my photos you see are non-cropped but frankly I do cheat a little from time to time because I just can't fill the frame with our feather friends when they are not co-operating ... ;D

Best
kk
---------------------
www.geocities.com/kkhui_001

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Webmaster on Oct 26^th, 2002, 9:28am

Hi KK,

Oh! You did cheat as well! Bob must be frustrated! :'( As a non-photographer, I prefer not to restrict oneself doing creative work provided that you have stated clearly what you have done on the raw image.

Regards,
Webmaster.

Title: Perfectionism?
Post by Forrest FONG on Oct 27^th, 2002, 12:04am

As a bird watcher, I would concern the message conveyed by the photo rather than it is cropped or not. :o
An un-sharp, wrong exposured or poor framed photo can also be a good and useful photo if it can help me to identify the bird, tell me its behaviour & its living habitat or serve as a record/proof of the existenance of the bird. ;D

Title: Bird Photography vs Bird ID [was FANTAIL SNIPE]
Post by kkhui on Oct 27^th, 2002, 9:37am

Forrest,

Thanks for making the point here. Bird Photography to me is a way of conveying an artistic expression of bird behavior through the eyes of a photographer. Birders on the other hand are more concerned with bird ID and photo as a record. So, the starting point and objective are drastically different.

From what I understand, experience birders in general would prefer illustrations (drawings) for ID purposes rather than photographs. Most field gudies based on photos sell to amatuers but not to experienced birders. Photographs are also greatly influenced by film used, filtration, and ambient light. Drawings by competent artists are better than photos in these respects - it emphasizes the differences such as plumage, color etc.

So let's not mix the ID thing with Bird Photography!

Best
kk
-----------------

Title: Bird Photo
Post by Forrest FONG on Oct 28^th, 2002, 12:21am

Hi KK,

Thank you very much for sharing your opinion and experience in photography. ;D

Not just for bird photography, conveying an artistic expression of the object through the eyes of a photographer is also the way of photography for animals, portrait, landscape, flowers, sport & reporting, etc.

To me, bird ID is the most fundamental requirement of bird photography. If I can't identify the bird showed in the photo, how can I rely on it to know the photographer's idea, ...... Bird photography can also serve many other purposes such as recording, education, art work and leisure-enjoyment, etc.
However, I believe its most important function is that the bird photo can be used to raise the public's interest/ awareness of birds, our environment and even our future. :D

Therefore, I should express my appreciation to those who had posted their photo in this BBS. Thank you so much for sharing the photo with other BBS members and the public. :-*

The BBS needs all your continuous supports by viewing and posting photo, message, reply & comment, etc. in this Photo Gallery and other forums.

Thanks a million.

Forrest 8)
Moderator

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Bob on Oct 28^th, 2002, 7:45am

I totally agree with Forrest statement "However, I believe its most important function is that the bird photo can be used to raise the public's interest/ awareness of birds, our environment and even our future. ".

This is the fundamental aim of all Nature Photographers.

The worlds leading nature photographers may take weeks or months just to take one photo of even our most commonest birds ,but these beautiful & artistic shots are helping to ensure that the species survive.

Most good photos have taken a lot of planning to get, with the photographer observing the bird over a period of time so that he can anticipate where it will go. Of course there is always the lucky shot

Bob

Title: Re: Bird Photos
Post by kkhui on Oct 28^th, 2002, 8:24am

Thanks Forrest, I can't agree with you more. The sole objective of me 'publishing' my work on bird photography is simple ... ;D

"It is my intent to use these photos as persuasion to bring people's awareness of what beautiful birds we have here in the door step of a busy city like Hong Kong and hence the importance of conservation and the need to preserve our natural heritage."

My thanks also go to Bob for pointing out the 'not so obvious' on nature photography ...

Best
kk
--------------

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Marcus on Oct 28^th, 2002, 1:35pm

:'(I may need to say sorry to everyone…  :o

After reviewed the other photos with the same bird which I took at the same time, I found that the bird may be a Swinhoe's Snipe. The attached photos may show the others detail. Can anyone please confirm or have any idea?

???
???
???

http://davidyoung.dreamstudio9.com/photo_on_net/images/members/mmpho/4114.jpg
http://davidyoung.dreamstudio9.com/photo_on_net/images/members/mmpho/4115.jpg

Hope everyone enjoy God give us this beautiful world everyday and every moment! ;) ;D :)

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by Paul Leader on Oct 28^th, 2002, 3:33pm

The second two photographs are indeed a Swinhoe's Snipe. Separation from Common is quite easy on the photograph showing the underwing which is uniformly barred grey and white, especailly on the auxillaries and greater underwing coverts. In Common Snipe the underwing is much paler and less uniform, and the auxillaries typically show a lot more whte than black (ie. the white bars are broader). Pintail has the same underwing pattern as Swinhoe's. Separation of Pintail and Swinhoe's Snipe is incredibly difficult, however these photographs clearly show the structure of the outer tail feathers. The outer tail feathers of both Swinhoe's and Pintail are distinctly narrow when compared with those of Common Snipe. In Pintail Snipe the outer eight (sometimes six to nine) pairs of tail feathers are less than 2 mm wide, while on Swinhoe's Snipe the outermost pair are very narrow (2-4 mm wide 20 mm from the tip), the next 1-4 pairs are all slightly broader, and the rest increasingly so towards the central pair.

Title: Re: FANTAIL SNIPE
Post by koel ko on Oct 28^th, 2002, 9:02pm

Many of us birders will appreciate an opportunity to share the photographer's joy of both having been with such a beautiful bird and photographed it above all, just as the photographer rejoices in his sharing with appreciative ones.
However, besides looking from the aesthetic angle, we have to admit that photos make a very good tool for identifying birds - and while they easily give a prejudiced or inaccurate image of the bird itself due to technical flaws, they give the most detailed view of ceratin features, which may not be adequately depicted in illustration-based field-guides.
Why don't we appreciate the superb photo and, at the same time, share our experiences and knowledge on birds so that we can all learn from the others? ;D