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        Discussion Area °Q½×°Ï >> Birding Reports & Tips Æ[³¾³ø§i¤Î¤ß±o >>  Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±`¨£³¾Ãþ
        
(Message started by: Fred on Sep 13^th, 2006, 11:22pm)

Title: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±`¨£³¾Ãþ
Post by Fred on Sep 13^th, 2006, 11:22pm

Here are some record photos of a few common birds of Perth, Western Australian which were taken in August 2006.

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia
Post by Fred on Sep 14^th, 2006, 10:02pm

May I request the web administrator to move back my photos to the photo sharing forum. I have not the intention to treat my photos as any birding report. My sole intention is for photo sharing but nothing else. Thanks.

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia
Post by Forrest FONG on Sep 14^th, 2006, 11:31pm

Hi Fred,

Thank you for sharing your stunning photos at the HKBWS BBS.
However, grateful if you could pay attention to the format requirements of our BBS.

Cheers,

Forrest

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia
Post by Fred on Sep 14^th, 2006, 11:37pm

Forrest,

Please elaborate by what means I have violated the formal requirements.

Fred

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia
Post by Forrest FONG on Sep 15^th, 2006, 12:24am

on 09/14/06 at 23:37:29, Fred wrote:

Please elaborate by what means I have violated the formal requirements.

Hi Fred,

Please take a look of the first message posted in the Photo Gallery I.
Please read before start new topics !! (http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=PhotoGallery;action=display;num=1135863731)

Cheers,

Forrest 8)

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±
Post by Fred on Sep 15^th, 2006, 10:42am

Forrest,

I would like to apologize for overlooking the message but unfortunately the message appeared only in Photo Galley I but was not repeated in Photo Gallery II.

Despite my mistake, I think that the more acceptable etiquette displayed by the web administrator is to advise me my mistake but not to remove my posting without any hints. Such action is perceived to be rude, disrespectful and discouraging too.

With the above understanding I would amend my posting.

Fred

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±
Post by ²`ÂÅ Owen on Sep 15^th, 2006, 6:49pm

Fred or Worldcup and everybody, just let you know that it's also very discouraging all volunteer admin here that a user register over one year + few years in previous BBS that he still don't understand and help to follow the rules of our bbs. I think if anyone did spend sometimes to read the posts from others he/she should learn the culture here without the need of posting the rules everywhere.

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±
Post by Fred on Sep 15^th, 2006, 9:58pm

Owen and webmasters, I have apologized in the first place but I also want to express that all volunteers or authority are not automatically entitled to rude behaviour or disrespectful actions which will not help further the interest of individual members or the aims of the Society at large. I do not want to engage in lengthy and unproductive arguments. Once again I apologize for overlooking some rules but I also insist that appropriate etiquette should be observed by all.

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±
Post by miket on Sep 15^th, 2006, 10:13pm

I think I'd speak for the majority of the users of this website and members of the HKBWS (I've been a pretty highly active member for nearly 20 years) in saying if you're that bothered about etiquette, don't bother posting.

We value our volunteers and the time they give above all else, and do not expect them to be treated like this.

Mike Turnbull.

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ? size=
Post by Fred on Sep 15^th, 2006, 11:09pm

Mike, I respect you as a senior member and your contributions, no doubt. But I cannot agree with your stand this time. What I am asking for is a better way of administering the forum and I cannot see why it is that disagreeable. The forum is set up to encourage sharing and I would say mostly for fun. Every participant has volunteered his time to view, respond, post and support the forum in one way or the other. Without active participation, the forum can only become a small closed group like a private club. On the other hand, the forum cannot in any sense claim itself to have a primary objective of research so that the posting rules are that important. Breaking a posting rule is not a big mistake which can be corrected by a friendly reminder. That can be a form of encouraging participation too, but certainly not by removing the post or asking me not to post like you do. By the same token, seniority does not entitle you to rude comments. If participation by an inexperienced member who has a view to support and to improve the forum is not valued and is not welcome, it is discouraging enough for me to withdraw from this forum.

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±
Post by geoff_welch on Sep 16^th, 2006, 6:17am

Fred, as the first member of HKBWS I really got to know, I encourage you not to withdraw from this forum. Everyone who makes useful and interesting contributions, as you do, makes the website more valuable and your absence will be our loss also.

Equally, I think we should all be aware of the valuable work done by the voluntary administrators without whom the website would descend into chaos and freeze up. It is a big job to maintain a website like this and no doubt much work is done without our really knowing about it. So we must all respect their decisions and give them our encouragement and support.

Geoff

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ? size=
Post by eling lee on Sep 16^th, 2006, 3:02pm

Fred,

As a junior member of the HKBWS, I would like to say for everyday I open up the web page of it, it would immediately prompt me to appreciate how much tedious works the BBS Administrators are doing.  Respecting the rules or guidelines of the BBS undoubtedly helps to create a systematic way of sharing our birding experiences with other members and this is what the BBS Administrators sacrificed their precious time aims for.  

Moving your photos from one heading to another is not something big enough entitled you to make offensive or inflammatory remarks toward others.  Nor do I accept the threatening of withdrawal from posting in the future helps to improve how BBS works.  

As what I always believe people like birdwatching is because they like to see how graceful the birds are.  I also hope people can express their opinions in a graceful way so that other members enjoying this forum are not irritated.

By the way, thanks very much for sharing your pictures and regretably they disappeared.

Eling Lee

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ?
Post by Forrest FONG on Sep 17^th, 2006, 1:28am

on 09/15/06 at 23:09:15, Fred wrote:

Breaking a posting rule is not a big mistake which can be corrected by a friendly reminder. That can be a form of encouraging participation too, but certainly not by removing the post or asking me not to post like you do. By the same token, seniority does not entitle you to rude comments. If participation by an inexperienced member who has a view to support and to improve the forum is not valued and is not welcome, it is discouraging enough for me to withdraw from this forum.

Dear all,

I am unhappy and very disappointed to see this destructive outcome. However, I am glad to hear the feedback and support from our new and fellow members. As the web administrator & forum moderators, we should keep all the messages being posted correctly in respective forums and maintain their integrity from time to time. If you review the previous pages of the Photos Gallery I and other forums two years before, you¡¦ll find how we maintained the forum and kept the messages in the proper format. In recent two years, we got more and more BBS members posting their photos onto the forums but many of them didn¡¦t follow the prescribed format. We have already tried our best but still couldn¡¦t keep all of them in the proper format. We even couldn¡¦t afford to keep giving each member a reminder unless a very serious problem was found.

I must iterate that photos being posted onto the other forums are not inferior to those posted onto the Photo Gallery I & II. Pippen HO¡¦s Malaysia birds report is a very good example. I must also clarify that we never moved a post to other forum for penalty of breaking the rules. Messages/photos are being moved to other forums solely because we find that they fit the topic of the respective forum.

Fred,
I moved your message (not removed) from Photo Gallery II to the Birding Reports forum because I found that it was a very good photos report of Australian birds and its format was well fitted the requirements of that forum. I expected that you and our BBS members would already know and even well understand the practice adopted in this BBS and therefore no explanation or hint was given. I really don¡¦t have time to explain everything well adopted in this BBS. If my action was being considered as rude, disrespectful and discouraging, I would say sorry to you and those BBS members affected.

To have a positive response and avoid similar issue to be happened again and again, I think we need to spend more effort to keep all the messages in the proper format and remind our new/inexperience members as far as possible. In this regard, we will need more volunteers to help us maintaining the forum. If you would like to offer your help to make the website more valuable, please give me an email ff orrest@hk bws.org.hk or a call at 94805233.

To show your support to the HKBWS BBS and further encourage our BBS members making useful and interesting contributions, may I request our BBS members to post a message in this thread to ask Fred come back and not to withdraw. Thanks a lot for the support from all of you.;D

Best Regards,

Forrest FONG 8)
HKBWS BBS Administrator

Hi Fred,

Please come back and don't withdraw!

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ? size=
Post by David_Diskin on Sep 19^th, 2006, 11:00pm

Just a few personal thoughts:

First of all, I (and I¡¦m sure many others) think the HKBWS website is an invaluable contribution to the birding scene in HK. The discussion forum, in particular, is very lively and the input of the photographers combined with the analysis of people who are very knowledgeable about the ID of Asian birds makes it a stimulating learning experience for us all. (One fresh example ¡V although there are numerous others ¡V is the excellent photo spread of a cuckoo sp. on Po Toi by PWMK and the subsequent ID of the bird as Asian Lesser Cuckoo ¡V with supporting reasons - by Paul and Mike).

Secondly, all who contribute to the website by sending photographs, commenting on ID etc. do so voluntarily. If no one contributed, the site would die. But, behind the scenes, the site would also die if the various webmasters ¡V and I don¡¦t really know who keeps this site going, but clearly Forrest is a major contributor - didn¡¦t maintain the site on a daily basis. And again, all of this is voluntary.

Thirdly, given the recent volatile thread involving Forrest & Fred, there does perhaps need to be a redefining of the various forum names. I personally find the Birding Reports & Trips section in particular to be a bit of a mish-mash. My own preference would be to see this split (like the photo galleries are split) into a Hong Kong section and a China/rest of the world section, with perhaps the China/rest of the world seaction being split again. I find it a bit odd to see Perth, Alaska & Malaysia sitting next to the day¡¦s sightings at Long Valley or Ng Tung Chai!!

I do, however, see why Forrest moved Fred¡¦s ¡§photo-series¡¨ on Perth into this section as it stands at the moment, and I also think Fred has over-reacted a little to Forrest¡¦s decision.

In conclusion, I think perhaps there should be a slight rethink of the forum design and I definitely think Fred should put all this behind him and continue contributing to the website.

David

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±
Post by Bob Thompson on Sep 20^th, 2006, 7:23am

I would like to second all that David has said and as to the new design of the BBS, I would like to see it incorporate "Real Names" only and the password for these names to be our HKBWS membership number.

Certain forums could be open to "Guest"posting but generally it should be restricted to society members. The society membership fee is very low and it costs money to run and maintain this excellent BBS.

With the ever increasing number of excellent photos being posted, it may be necessary to subdivide the two photo forums and as well introduce a daily limit as to the number of photos each member can post.

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±
Post by miket on Sep 20^th, 2006, 11:25am

I agree with most of what David and Bob have said. In particular, for some time I've felt the "Birding Reports and Trips" section should move towards HK and non-HK at least.
Anyway it's clearly important for members to air views and discuss possibilities.

I'd also like to apologise to Fred if my posting of a couple of days ago seemed rude, but I stand by the main point; that in the HKBWS we value our volunteers' time contribution very highly indeed, and understand that they give time while leading busy professional and private llives too.

Mike Turnbull

Title: Re: Common Birds of Perth, Western Australia ¬Ä´µ±
Post by Yi_Gou on Sep 20^th, 2006, 1:46pm

I certainly hope Fred doesn't withdraw and the "storm in the teacup" is allowed to settle.

Looking for positives, the issue has brought out in the open a reminder of the value of contributions both from people like Fred who post pictures and people like Forrest who keep the system operating.

Bo Yigou (the bald eagle)