HKBWS BBS ­» ´ä Æ[ ³¾ ·| ·s »D ²Õ    Special Topics ¯S§O¥DÃD    Wild Birds & Avian Flu ³¥³¾»P¸V¬y·P (Moderators: Forrest FONG, BBS Moderators, Webcreeper)    Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýªk « Previous topic | Next topic » Pages: 1 2  Reply Send Topic Print    Author  Topic: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýªk  (Read 2502 times) HF_Cheung Committee Member BBS God I love bird watching!     Posts: 224 Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýªk « on: Feb 22nd, 2006, 2:16pm » Quote Modify Jungle Crow, 18 Feb, Yau Yi Tsuen Shek Kip Mei   Java Sparrow, 19 Feb, Repulse Bay   White-rumped Munia, 19 Feb, Queen's Road East Wanchai     There are the latest dead birds that have H5 confirmed. In the past, after H5, all cases would have N1 confirmed in about two days.     There are several important points here.   1. The Jungle Crow in Shek Kip Mei is the 4th dead bird having the virus found near the bird market. Since Jungle Crow is a scavenger, it is highly probably that Jungle Crow and the earlier Common Magpies have contracted the virus through eating dead birds containing the virus in Shek Kip Mei.     2. The case of Java Sparrow proves that caged birds are involved. This is a strong evidence suggesting that there are leaks in the monitoring of wild bird trade that can allow the virus to go through undetected.     3. The case of White-rumped Munia also points to wild bird trade because there is a bird shop near the site that the dead bird was found.  It is quite possible that the Munia can be an escape from one of the bird shops.  Also, White-rumped Munia is a popular bird to be released in religious ceremonies.  Before their release, birds are kept in large numbers in small cages.  Naturally, the chance of inflection of these birds are very high.     Suggestions for action:   1. There should be a centralized collection of dead birds from all bird shops, including in particular those in the bird market.  The death rate should be monitored for abnormality, and samples of the dead bodies should be tested for H5N1.     2. The release of caged birds to the wild should be stopped immediately at least in the short term.  In the long term, an effective monitoring scheme should be in place if the practiced is not stopped completely.     HF Cheung « Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2006, 10:50pm by Webcreeper » Logged miket BBS Member BBS God I'd rather be birding!     Posts: 257 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 « Reply #1 on: Feb 22nd, 2006, 6:39pm » Quote Modify "Suggestions for action:   1. There should be a centralized collection of dead birds from all bird shops, including in particular those in the bird market.  The death rate should be monitored for abnormality, and samples of the dead bodies should be tested for H5N1.     2. The release of caged birds to the wild should be stopped immediately at least in the short term.  In the long term, an effective monitoring scheme should be in place if the practiced is not stopped completely."     I'm sorry, HF, but I think as members of HKBWS, we are entitled to expect a much more unequivocal line from our Chairman on issues such as this.   Both the trade in wild birds and the release into the wild of birds caught up in that trade must stop IMMEDIATELY.   If we don't call for that, who will?     Mike Turnbull Logged Bob Thompson BBS Member BBS God I love bird watching!     Gender: Posts: 433 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 « Reply #2 on: Feb 22nd, 2006, 6:57pm » Quote Modify In my opinion the release of wild exotic birds should be stopped immediately.   Bob Logged HF_Cheung Committee Member BBS God I love bird watching!     Posts: 224 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 « Reply #3 on: Feb 22nd, 2006, 8:37pm » Quote Modify Dear Mike,     I think we differ only in presenation and approach.  Stopping wild bird trade and release of caught wild birds are what I have in mind.     Thank you for your comment and suggestion.     HF Cheung   Logged miket BBS Member BBS God I'd rather be birding!     Posts: 257 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 « Reply #4 on: Feb 22nd, 2006, 8:50pm » Quote Modify I'm sure, in fact I know, that we do only differ in presentation and approach HF, but I still think we need to make the Govt. take very serious steps to eradicate entirely and forever from now on the practice of wilfully releasing captive birds in HK, and get them to work on introducing a timetable for  closing down  the wild bird trade in HK.  The health risks, both for avian and human populations associated with these practices are no longer acceptable on grounds such as religious practice (plenty of Buddhists in Hong Kong follow the teachings of Buddha throughout their lives without ever releasing birds, turtles or anything else) and cultural tradition (it is not, I believe, a great assault on Chinese culture to stop people keeping wild white-eyes etc in tiny cages).     I feel strongly that we need to try to make some good come of the current bird-related health scare by ensuring it sounds the death-knell for the wild bird trade through and in HK.   Mike Turnbull Logged Little Dolphin BBS Member BBS God Man and Nature, harmony forever     Gender: Posts: 248 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 « Reply #5 on: Feb 22nd, 2006, 11:11pm » Quote Modify Hello all.   As a member of the Society I strongly support the opinions of Dr Cheung and Mr Turnbull. Banning the act of voluntarily releasing birds should be fairly easy---just eract the laws and convince religious authorities that releasing birds is against the teachings of the Buddha.   On the matter of eradicating wild bird trade, though, I would anticipate massive resistance from the bird traders, and perhaps from the public. Just look at central slaughtering of chickens: several lobbies from poultry shop owners and the government delayed central slaughtering for years. To make sure the government doesn't back down from closing the Mong Kok Bird Market, we need concrete evidence that the Bird Market is spreading H5N1. Indeed, if bird flu is found in the birds there, that will literally be a 'death blow' to the bird traders.   May I suggest the society make more statements in TV and newspaper to tell the public (and especially politicians) the truth about how avian flu is spread. I sense lots of people around have been misled by the alarmist reports in the mass media.   Rex Au Yeung Logged Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. --- John Donne (1572-1631) HF_Cheung Committee Member BBS God I love bird watching!     Posts: 224 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 « Reply #6 on: Feb 23rd, 2006, 10:53am » Quote Modify Thanks Mike and Little_Dolphin,     If there is a easy way for HKBWS to achieve both (wild bird trade and release of captive birds), I will let anybody try.  In fact, HKBWS can work on two methods simultanously.  Right now I think the most promising way is to set up a centralized system for collecting dead birds from the bird market.  I think there is a very high chance that the virus can be found in dead birds from there.  Right now, 200 samples from life birds per month would probably allow the virus go undetected.  I thnk there is high chance that the government will follow my recommandation.  We can achieve the goal one step at a time.     Cho Nam have tried the direct one-step approach many times in the past, for example, during the last SARS outbreak.  This has not worked yet.     HF Cheung   Logged Paul Leader BBS Member BBS Senior Member     Posts: 83 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýª « Reply #7 on: Feb 27th, 2006, 2:17pm » Quote Modify There are a number of issues here, but I wish to comment on the perception that Mai Po, wild birds, and birdwatching are all dangerous.   There remains a very simple truth behind all the noise - that the birds testing positive for H5N1 are coming from the urban area, and are resident species.   Thus the closure of Mai Po is illogical.  There has never been a case of H5N1 at Mai Po.  There has never been a case of tranmission from a wild bird to a human.  Why is the risk any greater than walking in Kowloon Park?   So why is Mai Po closed?  Why has  the Baptist School withdrawn from the Big Bird Race following advice issued to them by the Education and Manpower Bureau of Avian Influenza?   Generally it would seem that there is a perception that wild birds are dangerous, and that they spread H5N1.  This perception holds that that if there are cases of H5N1 in the urban area, there must be even more at Mai Po where there are far more birds.  This percption holds that it is possible to contract H5N1 from wild birds.   We are in danger of the general perception of wild birds changing from that of something to be appreciated and cherished, to something to be feared.  From a Conservation viewpoint this is terrible news.   Those who know better should be challanging these perceptions before it is too late to do so.  Surely this is a job for HKBWS?   Logged miket BBS Member BBS God I'd rather be birding!     Posts: 257 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýª « Reply #8 on: Feb 27th, 2006, 9:24pm » Quote Modify Paul is right that we need to separate issues such as the wild bird trade and the closure of Mai Po.   However, as I'm sure he'll agree, we, ie HKBWS members led by our Chairman and his committee, need a position on both, and those positions need to be simple and clear ones, which can be easily justified and frequently promoted.     On the wild bird trade, I think our position should be that it is wrong, since it represents an unacceptable and avoidable pressure on bird populations. I still think the Government should be being pressed by HKBWS and others to stop it, and soon.     This is based both on these conservation grounds, and also, though incidentally, on health grounds - the handling of wild birds which have been invariably transported in unsanitary conditions from various parts of China to bird shops in urban locations such as Mongkok, is simply an unnecessary risk for us to be taking with our own health, and with the economic health of our city and its reputation.   Concerning the closure of Mai Po our position needs to be that this was and remains completely unnecessary for all the reasons given in posts such as Paul's, and many others too.     Above all, we must get across the truth about avian flu (better known as 'poultry flu'):     - that it is 99.9% certain to have originated in poultry factories     - that it has spread around the globe to places as far apart as Indonesia, north-west China, the Black Sea region and beyond in Europe, and to Nigeria, not through migrant birds, but through shady (in many cases probably criminal) movements of chickens and their derivatives     If anyone hasn't seen it yet I  recommend they read Martin Williams's post on this subject today and follow the links. The next time I hear a "scientific expert" (usually a medic or microbiologist!) tell me that migratory birds carried it from Qinghai to Turkey along their regular flight path I shall scream, almost as loud as I nearly did just now when I read of the school team's withdrawal from the BBR "on the advice of EMB" - in some ways the most bizarre thing in this affair since a policeman at Mai Po told me just over a week ago at Mai Po that he had to padlock the boardwalk gate behind when I went out to do the count "in case of H5N1". Logged Fred BBS Member BBS God Birds are fascinating!     Posts: 254 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýª « Reply #9 on: Feb 28th, 2006, 12:21am » Quote Modify I perfectly agree an unequivocal voice from HKBWS petitioning the govt to:-   1. stop wild bird trade, and 2. re-open Mai Po immediately to permit holders   I would like to request our Chairman to see this done, perhaps after a formal opinion survey if he needs further support from members.     Logged Paul Leader BBS Member BBS Senior Member     Posts: 83 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýª « Reply #10 on: Feb 28th, 2006, 8:29am » Quote Modify I agree with Kumanfai, and I suggest that any else who does, simply adds a short post to state so. Logged Michael_Leven BBS Member BBS Junior Member     Posts: 28 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýª « Reply #11 on: Feb 28th, 2006, 12:40pm » Quote Modify I would like to add my support for a strong statement from HKBWS along the lines suggested by kumunfai.   I think HKBWS should state that the pattern of the present occurences of H5N1 in wild birds in HK (urban birds which may well be in proximity to released birds) does not point to migrant birds as the main vector here -there is no evidence that migrant birds pose a health threat to humans in Hong Kong, there is no significant danger in visiting places where wild birds are present & Mai Po should be reopened.    On a related point HKBWS should press AFCD to withdraw the suggestion (if this was not a misquotation in the press) that House Crows and pigeons are not protected and that the public can take the law into its own hands and kill them. AFCD should make it clear that control of House Crows is solely a matter for AFCD; where people are concerned they should report to AFCD, they should not take any action themselves as such action would be illegal.   Michael Leven Logged johnallcock BBS Member BBS Senior Member     Posts: 66 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýª « Reply #12 on: Feb 28th, 2006, 1:22pm » Quote Modify I would like to add my full support to Kumanfai's suggestion that the HKBWS should be taking a stronger stand on these issues.   As others have said, the suggestion that Mai Po should be closed because of the discovery of dead resident birds in the urban area is utterly illogical.   I also agree with Mike that the government should clarify that the presence of H5N1 DOES NOT allow members of the public to kill wild birds. Logged Fred BBS Member BBS God Birds are fascinating!     Posts: 254 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ý? size= « Reply #13 on: Mar 1st, 2006, 11:55pm » Quote Modify Push Push   Dear Members,   Please let people know your views and silence is not the best way to make a change.   Unless you think the wild birds, bird watchers and researchers alike are being treated fairly now, please say a word to support a clear statement made to the government. Say it now and have no regret.       « Last Edit: Mar 2nd, 2006, 12:04am by Fred » Logged KK Hui BBS Member BBS God Bird Photography - at its best ...     Posts: 940 Re: Avian Flu update 22 Feb 2006 ¹ï¸V¬y·Pªº³Ì·s¬Ýª « Reply #14 on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 8:36am » Quote Modify I fully support the notion of ... "re-opening Mai Po immediately to permit holders" since the current closure is illogical to say the least.     KK Hui FRPS www.geocities.com/kkhui_001 Logged Pages: 1 2  Reply Send Topic Print Forum Jump: ----------------------------- Announcement ²°T³q§i -----------------------------  - Membership Affair ·|­û¨Æ°È   - Outings / Activities ¤á¥~¬¡°Ê / Á¿®y   - Projects ¶µ¥Ø­p¹º   - Crested Bulbul Club ¬õ¦Õóí­Ñ¼Ö³¡ ----------------------------- Discussion Area °Q½×°Ï -----------------------------  - General ¤@¯ë°ÝÃD   - Conservation ¦ÛµM«O¨|   - Bird Identification ³¾Ãþ¿ëÃÑ   - Birding Reports & Tips Æ[³¾³ø§i¤Î¤ß±o   - Photo Gallery ¬Û¤ù¤À¨É I   - Photo Gallery ¬Û¤ù¤À¨É II ----------------------------- Special Topics ¯S§O¥DÃD -----------------------------=> Wild Birds & Avian Flu ³¥³¾»P¸V¬y·P   - Sustainable Management Scheme in Long Valley Üñ­ì¥i«ùÄò¥ÍºAºÞ²z­p¹º   - Black-faced Spoonbill ¶ÂÁyµ\ÆO   - Goodbye Penfold §i§O´^ºÖ   - Tern Conservation ¿PÅëO¨|   - Black-eared Kite »ð(³ÂÆN)   - Swifts and Swallows ¿P»P«B¿P   - China Birdwatching Network ¤¤°êÆ[³¾¬¡°Êºôµ¸   - Winter Altas Survey ¥V©u³¾Ãþ´¶¬d   - Nature Conservation Policy ¦ÛµM«O¨|¬Fµ¦ ----------------------------- Knowledge Sharing ª¾ÃѤÀ¨É -----------------------------  - FAQ ±`¨£°ÝÃD   - Archive ¸ê®Æ­«·Å « Previous topic | Next topic »

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