twallace

1/1/2013 TPK
Thanks in advise






[ Last edited by twallace at 4/01/2013 18:05 ]

kmatthew

Looks like a Rufous-tailed Robin, note the scaly breast.

brendank

I suggest it is a hybrid between Rufous-tailed and Japanese Robin. I think the white throat and scalloped breast suggests Rufous-tailed but reddish tones to head suggest Japanese Robin. Brazil shows both species breeding on southern Sakhalin Island.

kmike

In my opinion this bird is not at all straightforward.

It looks too rufous above  for a Rufous-tailed Robin and the jizz does not quit work for me, but otherwise not a million miles away
Female Japanese Robin should have a rufous throat and upper breast and I'm not at all sure about the scaly underpart
Ryukyu Robin has grey cheeks, but the scaly underparts and grey sides actually fits this better than Japanese Robin, but is it rufous enough above - a grotty juv female perhaps?

The dark edges to the undertail coverts look very interesting

Given this mix of apparently contradictory features, how does one decide?

Cheers
Mike

HFCheung

I think of three possible candidates, it fits Ryukyu Robin better.  See the following Oriental Bird Club Image.  The only problems are that scales on the breast are slightly too strong and that the face colour do not come out too well.  However, the general body colour, especial when comparing the crown to tail colour seems to fit very well.  

http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1

[ Last edited by HFCheung at 4/01/2013 00:00 ]

Jonathmartinez

I don't see anything in this bird that could suggest something else than a Swinhoe's Robin. I think have to be very cautionous with the color of the upperparts, especially considering that this bird is photographed at a sunny spot and that we usually see this species in the twilight of understorey. Branches and leaves around looks very bright to me.
Just try to desaturate a bit these pictures on photoshop, and to me it will show a typical Swinhoe's.

All the best,

Jonathan

wleepoin

This Robin was seen under the dim canopy and at first glance it was thought to be Red-tailed Robin. But with our binoculars we saw the head, back and tail were too orangey red. Japanese Robin female came into our mind but the white throat suggest otherwise. There are not much photos of a juvenile female Japanese Robin on the website, we need more comments from the experts!

It is known hybrid occurs in Thrushes, could this happen to Robins too??

Cheers
PWMK

brendank

Hybrids have been reported between Common Nightingale and the Thrush Nightingale (both of same genus luscinia). I can't find any records of any of the East Asian species of luscinia hybridizing.

http://link.springer.com/article ... -011-0700-7?LI=true

ajohn

I don't think this can be Ryukyu Robin - females seem to be pale on the lores and the lower/front half of the ear coverts, unlike this bird. The scales on Ryukyu seem poorly marked. Ryukyu also has a curious structure, looking large-headed and large-footed relative to a small body. Compare with this bird: http://orientalbirdimages.org/se ... _ID=&pagesize=1

It does not quite fit with Rufous-tailed either - not just the orange saturation of the upperparts, but also the head pattern - there is an orange wash to the ear coverts which would not be expected for Rufous-tailed, and this extends down towards the throat. The throat looks particularly well demarcated with white. Rufous-tailed often also seems to show a slight half-collar of white, which this bird apparently lacks. Also note that the tail does not contrast with the mantle, as would be expected for Rufous-tailed.

On balance, I think this is most likely a female Japanese Robin. We know that young female Siberian Rubythroats have white throats, but develop redder throats in adults. Could this also be the case with at least some Japanese Robins, and that this is a first-winter female in a poorly-known plumage?

One important lesson for all of us I think is how we would identify this bird on a brief view in the field? These woodland chats can be very skulking and difficult to observe. I think there is a good chance it could be overlooked as a Rufous-tailed. If this is a regular plumage for Japanese Robin, is it possible this species is under-recorded in Hong Kong?

brendank

I find it hard to imagine with the number of bird photographers in Japan, if such a white throated plumage did exist for Japanese Robin, that it would not yet be documented.

Jonathmartinez

I haven't seen the bird so it is hard to tell, and field experience is much better than opinion on picture. So if the bird looks so rufous in the field, then I agree that it is very odd for Swinhoe's Plover.
But to me the eyering contrast to much with the head part, where it seems to show very little contrast on Japanese.
There is a blurry paler area just above the bill continuing into the bill (thin pale stripe) like Swinhoe's and I can not find any pic of Japanese suggesting that.
The lore seems to very slighty contrast, and are delimited by this pale stripe above and by the throat below, this area seems to be less or more dark from many pics of Swinhoe's can be found in the net.
Ear coverts show a few paler feathers as many birds shown on OBI.
Japanese Robin, in both sex show a plain head so why first winter (I'm not saying it is a first winter) would show such an head pattern, that fits in many aspect Swinhoe's Robin. They are just very poorly marked.
The apparence of the throat just depends on the position of the feather as shown in pics 1 and 2(looks more white on pic2).

Japanese robin show also some contrast between rectrices and mantle... and this contrast seems to be variable in Swinhoe's.
The scaly underparts with grey washed on the flank is typical of Swinhoe's.

So the only odd thing with this bird are the very rich upperparts to me...

But I agree that it seems that there is very few picture of the 1st W Japanese Robin, but I don't know why, I'm very little confident that it is one but very happy to be corrected.

All the best,

Jonathan

twallace

Thanks all comment & reply. We are so happy to see this timid bird~~

Ken

Additional photo taken on the same day and the same place

lpaul

Whilst I not sure exactly what this is, having seen the bird (rather briefly), this is not a Rufous-tailed Robin.  In the field the entire upperparts are rather uniform in colour and are a rich reddish brown.  From behind it looked like a typical Japanese Robin, and of the hundreds of Rufous-tailed Robins i have seen over the years, I have never seen one with such rich uniformly toned upperparts.

Likewise, the rufous tones to the head and ear-coverts are wrong for Rufous-tailed Robin, and the scaling below is actually at the extreme end for this species yet it lacks the blackish submoustachial typical of well-marked birds.  The flanks are never so uniformly grey in Rufous-tailed Robin and finally it lacks a short supercilium between the eye and the bill which many show.

That said, the pale throat and extensive scaling is totally wrong for Japanese Robin.

Jonathmartinez

Well, more I'm looking at this bird, more I'm thinking that I can only agree that the "jizz" do not feet with Swinhnoe's Robin, especially the bill and head shape...and Paul's comments on plumage make quite sense on many parts....very odd bird.

All the best,

Jonathan

kmike

Sounds like we're stuffed on this one then!

Cheers
Mike